Congressman Larry McDonald on the American Deep State and its quest to enable World Government; circa 1983

At a time when terms like “conspiracy,” “New World Order,” “World Government,” “Illuminati” and “Deep State” raised eyebrows, one American Congressman was actively drawing attention to them.

Congressman Larry McDonald (Democrat-Georgia) was a doctor who became a populist, anti-Communist American politician. In his brief political career, spanning a mere eight years, he is credited with introducing up to 150 bills, some of which were the following:

  • Repeal the Gun Control Act of 1968.
  • Remove the limitation upon the amount of outside income a Social Security recipient may earn.
  • Award honorary U.S. Citizenship to Russian dissident Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
  • Invite Russian dissident Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn to address a joint meeting of Congress.
  • Prohibit Federal funds from being used to finance the purchase of American agricultural commodities by any Communist country.
  • Create a select committee in the House of Representatives to conduct an investigation of human rights abuses in Southeast Asia by Communist forces.
  • Repeal the FCC regulations against editorializing and support of political candidates by noncommercial educational broadcasting stations.
  • Create a House Committee on Internal Security.
  • Impeach UN Ambassador Andrew Young.
  • Limit eligibility for appointment and admission to any United States service academy to men.
  • Direct the Comptroller General of the United States to audit the gold held by the United States annually.
  • Increase the national speed limit to 65 miles per hour (105 km/h) from the then-prevailing national speed limit of 55 miles per hour (89 km/h).
  • Abolish the Federal Election Commission.
  • Get the U.S. out of the United Nations.
  • Place statues of Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver in the Capitol.

Oily Spookian Thomas Braden.

Here he is on an episode of Crossfire, “Rebirth of the Birchers,” in May 1983, taking on host Pat Buchanan and co-host Tom Braden. Tom was a slimey spook all his life. Even officially, he was CIA! It seems this interview was an attempt to gauge what Larry knew about CIA’s then Director William Casey, and to find out if he could backtrack from throwing accusations. It is also interesting to note that they are ridiculing Larry for only tracing the conspiracy back to President Wilson’s alter-ego and founder of what would later become the CIA, Mandell House. That is how the Phoenicians protect themselves. By misdirecting away from their ancient origins and instead attributing “conspiracy” to recent phenomena and figures. You can’t fight what you can’t see. Needless to say, Larry seems to have a good grasp of who they are, and he mentions that they have dominated America for the last 40 years. But as recent research has shown, Phoenicians go way back. Before going into the interview, it is important to consider Miles Mathis’ position that rather than Liberals being the villains, the word Liberal has been inverted, and that Republicans are more towards the Fascist side. Also note that Larry McDonald was a Democrat, indicating that he was aware of this false dichotomy.

And here is a partial transcript (Starts from 0:36 and goes till 16:25). The controversy they are referring to is the claim made by Robert Welch, founder of the John Birch Society, that President Eisenhower was a Communist agent. In an earlier book, I have made the case that the Unites States did indeed fight World War II in a manner that befitted the Soviet Union.

Pat: [……….] all of a sudden when you mention the Birch Society, everybody recoils. Why is that the reason?

Larry: the reason it is Tom is because we haven’t got into what the Society is. It’s the classic effort of a strawman that is thrown up. The Society never took a position. The Society never stated anything about Eisenhower one way or the other, but it was never a position of the Society.

Pat: Was it a problem for the Society that its head for 25 years was a man who had made that statement and his head is not that…..

Larry: Well part of the problem is Tom, the fact that the actual statement has not been quoted and if anyone wants to take the time to read the politicians with the footnotes, they can read it and judge from themselves, and of course, that is not the position of the Society one way or the other of course. Another small problem is that Mr. Welch did not resign. Actually this was a move of transition of leadership. He was one of the individuals actively making the transition, he was the chairman.

Pat: I am going to get to the point. Why is the John Birch Society differentiated from other new right organizations, you can say the Conservative Caucus, Nick-Pack or Conservative Digest and people say yes no yes no but you say Birch Society and there is a recoil even among Conservatives who say no-no, don’t call me a member of the Birch Society. Why is it? Is that partly due to the fact that Bill Buckley’s National Review, I think around 1964, read the Birch Society out of the Conservative movement. Have you recovered from that?

Larry: Well I think Bill Buckley founded ACU in 65 partly to do that. Elements within National Review and also beginning in 65, I think very dishonestly took a very strong tack against the Society. The Society was actually turning more of the Old Right. I think the definition, the new I mean……..

Pat: Ok but why? I mean I don’t know where you disagree with the new right people. But why do you carry around this tarnish? This taint?

Tom: Let me give you another reason why Mr. Welch…..

Larry: The reason is because the Society is the only organization in America that is organized at the grassroots level, with paid coordinators, with chapters and communities all across the country. Of course, not with chapters, not with a paid field staff for all across things but that’s organized. So the result is that this is the one group that those who would radically change America seriously fear, and a tremendous campaign was launched in December of 1960 to move to discredit the John Birch Society, and frankly launched the initial orders coming out of them….

Tom: Well Mr. McDonald I am not a conspirator. I think even Buchanan would vouch for that. Well you know Robert [Welch], Robert…..

Larry: Well you are a member of the [inaudible]

Tom: Well no, I don’t think so. Yeah I am a member of the Council on Foreign Relations…..

Larry: Yeah well you’ve certainly…..

Tom: Let me just tell you what Newsweek says that The John Birch Society considers Communism only one arm of a National Master Conspiracy in which Socialist American insiders are plotting to establish World Government. Now he also says, and here is Director John McManus, that’s your Public Relations Director, saying a former Secretary of State, Alexander Haig and CIA Director William Casey are two of these Master Conspirators who are plotting to establish World Government. Now what do you say. You know that kind of silly asinine statement is what makes people, make people laugh and say, “that’s the John Birch Society.”

Larry: Well Tom I am sure being a longstanding member of the Rockefeller apparatus and as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, longstanding, you are fully aware that there is an Elitist core in this country that has seen value in subsidizing Communism, of protecting Communism. Sure.

Tom: You are accusing me of subsidizing Communism?

Larry: I am saying [inaudible].

Larry: There is an Elite core in this country that has dominated American Society….

Tom: I am not one of them.

Larry: The Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations ….

Tom: Well here’s our Monday food…

Larry: Well let’s face it. They have dominated the State Department for 40 years. And pretty much openly.

Pat: What are they trying to do?

Larry: Well their objective is to try to bring about a gradual transition in our society. A dissolving of sovereignty and a moving steadily to the left on the political spectrum.

Tom: Who are they?

Larry: The Elitist groups that I mentioned.  Particularly the key individuals and policy makers in the Council on Foreign Relations.

Pat: The International Monetary Fund?

Larry: Well they say the International Monetary Fund is certainly set up for the purpose of facilitating that transfer of sovereignty and transfer of wealth.

Pat. Right…

Larry: Let me just finish the point because then we will have a lot of unanswered questions. That you are looking at a group that has the work to bring about the dissolution of National Sovereignty on the road to World Government. And certainly you are familiar with the local Professor Carrol Quigley who has been part of your club in which he admitted all of this. And he said in his book Tragedy and Hope, the only thing I disagree with is that we worked to keep it a secret. You see Arthur Schlesinger Jr. writing way back in 1947, says yes this is the hidden policy of America. But we can’t tell the American public because they are too unsophisticated to see the values…

Pat: What is the mentality of World Government? What instrument would you say…..

Tom: This is the silliest statement that I ever heard…..

Larry: Let me suggest you read the May-June issue of Partisan Review of 1947….Tom, you can read it for yourself….

Tom: There was a Conspiracy of Communism….

Larry: Oh he didn’t use the word conspiracy. He said the objective was to bring…

Tom: what kind of…

Larry: Let me finish….. I will tell you. He said the objective of the secret policy which we can’t tell the American public because they are not sophisticated enough to see the value is that through a steady result of erosion of New Deals, we bring the American Society steadily to left and through a strong concept of benign containment we merge into the vital centre of the Socialist Left. Those are his words, not mine.

Pat: Let me ask you this. The World Federalist Movement in the postwar era contained a lot of people who actually broke with it and a lot of people thought the UN in the postwar era looked towards World Government. Indeed they did up until 48-49. But a lot of them said look, we were utopian. That’s over and done.  We can’t move. And a lot of them came in Kennedy’s government. Schlesinger was in there when they were fighting in Vietnam, launched the effort in Vietnam. Celeste was behind the Bay of Pigs. In other words, look, isn’t there some movement that occurred in the postwar era now that has been dissipated because nobody believes the utopian ideal of World Government anymore?

Larry: Well I think there are those who realize that moving straight from a prototype of the United Nations in the World Government is perhaps tactically impossible but phasing out the increase in national sovereignty into regional government and phasing out sovereignties into international treaties and multipliers.

Pat: The whole movement towards quote “interdependence”….

Tom: NATO is part of the conspiracy?

Larry: Well there are certainly elements in NATO. NATO is strongly dedicated to the defense of the West. But at the same time you find in NATO a steady dissolution, you find a growing weakness as a NATO policy dominated by [US] State Department policies that has not worked.

Tom: Well it’s a regional grouping and I think therefore it may be suspect by the John Birch Society.

Pat: We are talking with Congressman Larry McDonald who was recently been elevated against the chairmanship of the John Birch Society, succeeding Robert Welch. We will be back in a minute.


Tom: Welcome back to Crossfire. Our guest is the new Chairman, recently named Chairman of the John Birch Society, Congressman Larry McDonald, the Democrat from Georgia. Mr. McDonald your predecessor believed that the PTA was too left wing and that the John Birch Society at one time tried to infiltrate or so he said, used the word infiltrate. You still….is that part of your program now?

Larry: Well I think when the PTA comes out in this program for the test ban treaty, and when the PTA comes out for gun control, it comes out for obviously national legislative programs that have been linked with liberalism, having nothing to do with the education of our children. I think many people are wondering what in the world the PTA are doing and that includes members of John Birch……….

Tom: Well I wonder about you. I looked you up. You are the biggest joiner that I have ever seen in the world. You belong as I counted them, 67 organisations among which are the National Rifle Association, the American Pistol and Revolver Association, the Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, the Second Amendment Foundation and the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Larry: Well Tom I think there is a real drive to destroy the realization of our citizens that they have a fundamental and constitutional right to keep and bear arms, the Constitution allows and unfortunately there are those in our society including elements in the PTA nationally, not always locally by any stretch, but nationally who would believe that the Federal Government should restrict the right of citizens….

Pat: what kind of grades would you give Ronald Reagan as a President of the John Birch Society?

Larry: Well I was saying his speeches, Pat, you would have to give him close to an A, B+ to an A. But in his performance, disappointing….

Pat: Why?

Larry: Well I think the fact that the rhetoric is going one way and the record is going another.

Tom: Let me ask you about the issues….

Larry: Well you can take the issue of one of the major problem of this country is inflation, and the problems of the destruction of the dollar and the fact of the matter is in spite of promises of contrary, Reagan has not moved to correct the deficiencies. We are now back to….

Tom: You think that’s the conspiracy you mentioned and somebody is working on him to get the inflation so that this country will be……

Larry: Cuz a man who campaigned against elitism, as a man in his campaign rhetoric said that he would not be having Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral types dominating his cabinet, he’s got about 250 members of such in his administration….

Tom: Well let me ask you about Bill Casey…

Larry: [inaudible].

Oily Megaspook William “Bill” Casey.

Tom: I have known Bill Casey, the Director of the CIA since World War II, he was my boss. You’ve used your Public Relations Director, of the John Birch Society, that Bill Casey is a part of this conspiracy….

Larry: Before he became CIA director one of his big jobs was aiding in the transfer of technology and goods and so forth to the Soviet Union, helping the [inaudible] River Project, the Export-Import bank…

Tom: How is the Export-Import bank part of the conspiracy?

Larry: I think….I hate to drive at you the fact that the American people have been tapped steadily, especially since World War II, to finance their enemies and to have massive technology transfer to those…you know that from the Braden doctrine in the agency you are very familiar with, and the feeling that we must somehow subsidize quote: “non-Communist left that’s among our so-called Allies…” Country after country that turned out to be Communists, the crypto-Communists masquerading as the non-Communists.

Tom: Mr. Mitterrand who has taken the strongest position against the Russians of any Western European…

Larry: He was about to lose everything at the polls and he had to show some sign. It’s very difficult to say how far that will play…

Pat: Mr. McDonald, he’s [Tom] been using the term conspiracy….

Tom: No I didn’t use it. For heaven’s sake Pat, but for John Birch to say to you…

Pat: You’ve used it 45 times….

Tom: That’s right. They say this is a conspiracy. I want to know what the conspiracy is. I want to find out who is in it. And what agencies of government are in it. And I want to fight it along with you……How can I join the John Birch Society?

Larry: No problem at all. All you do is write a letter to the John Birch Society, Belmont Massachusetts, 02178, and you would like to purchase for two dollars, a copy of the Blue Book. Tom, you will read it and I think if you are a dedicated American, you will agree with every word. Then you get in touch with me, then we may even sign you up.

Tom: Yeah but here it says in one of your publications, “not just anyone can be a [inaudible].” ……

Larry: if you don’t believe in the Constitution that limited government, and free enterprise, and biblical values of morality….

Tom: I believe in all those, but what I don’t believe in…


Pat: That is the 47th time he said conspiracy. And let me ask you seriously, when you accuse people like Casey, who is on the Council on Foreign Relations, David Rockerfeller’s Trilateral Committee, a Commission, what do you mean, or do you mean in terms of conspiracy?

Larry: Well there are many different levels of problems, yes. The term has been used in terms of conspiracy. When you have a group of people…..

Pat: I mean they are actively collaborating, and at the other end of that point of collaboration are Communists, at this end of the point of collaboration is Bill Casey, and Trilateralists and CFR….

Larry: Hey you have people that are part of the elitist structure of this country that have dominated this country openly for 40 years….

Pat: No but they are not…is that a conspiracy?

Larry: Wait a minute, wait a minute…if people quietly working together for evil objectives, two or more, that by definition is a conspiracy. You have by their own admission…. You look at Tragedy and Hope by Professor Carrol Quigley, he was a member of this elitist group. He says sure we’ve been working, sure we’ve been collaborating with Communism. Yes, we are working for a global accommodation, yes we are working for world government. The only thing I object is that we have kept it a secret. And I think we have gone so far along we should come out and say this.

Tom: [inaudible] Bill Casey doesn’t know who Professor Quigley is and I don’t.

Larry: He died a couple of years ago and he wrote Tragedy and Hope. He is a very noted member of your club Tom.

Pat: Tom you’d better broaden your reading.

Tom: What I ought to do is read more about conspiracies….

Larry: What you ought to do is to go back and look at your founder Edward Mandell House cause he wrote the book Philip Dru: Administrator: A Story of Tomorrow. Colonel House said what he envisioned for the world was a World Government along Socialist lines as envisioned by Karl Marx. Now that’s your leader. You got to go back to the beginning…

Tom: There’s Woodrow Wilson. Do you think he was a Communist?

Larry: Woodrow Wilson was his follower. I think Edward Mandell House dominated Wilson, not the other way round.

Tom: And so Edward Mandell House, we ought to make that clear, he was President Wilson’s….

Larry: alter ego…

Pat: That’s correct.

Tom: Yeah. So he is the real villain from which all these conspiracies…..

Larry: No, no, no, no. He is a major figure. But there has been unfortunately in the West an element….there are good members in the Council on Foreign Relations, dedicated patriotic people. You’ve had Spruill Braden who was a member of the Council. Roberta Siedel [inaudible] on Council on Foreign Relations. You’ve got some dedicated people. But the driving forces have been very clearly been willing to collaborate, subsidize, work for technology transfer for what they feel is some type of accommodation and merger. And I submit that this would be a disaster for the American Republic.

Tom: Are there any in Congress?

Larry: Sure.

Pat: Our guest has been Congressman Larry McDonald of the John Birch Society. He is the new chairman. He succeeded Robert Welch who has stepped down as I understand, is that correct?

Larry: they promoted him to Chairman, voted him Chairman Emeritus and Founder.

Pat: Tom Braden and I will be back with final comments in a moment.


Four months later, Congressman Larry McDonald supposedly died when a civilian airliner he was travelling in supposedly drifted into Soviet airspace and was shot down. But there are credible theories that the plane was forced to land in Soviet territory, and that Larry McDonald was taken prisoner. To quote an earlier book of mine (see the book for the references),

McDonald’s flight never made it to Seoul. What took place on September 1st 1983 may never be known. There is indication that the plane was diverted to Soviet Sakhalin, and the passengers, including Congressman McDonald were taken prisoner. In 1993, Avraham Shifrin, an expert in Soviet era gulag systems reported the existence of Soviet eyewitnesses who had seen the Congressman as a captive.[REF] In 1987, former NSA agent Jerry Mooney testified before Congress that skilled American POWs with technical knowledge were brought to a prison in Karaganda (Kazakhstan). In order to keep McDonald’s presence there a secret, he was moved to another small prison in Kazakhstan (Temir-Tau). The wardens of this prison identified him from a computer-aged photograph.[REF] The United States wrapped up its investigation only after ten weeks, as opposed to the investigations into TWA-800 and Lockerbie bombing, which would continue for years.[REF]

The John Birch Society lingers on, but it has been subverted and turned into another Trumpet. Predictably, they didn’t call 9/11 an inside job. In 2002, another American Senator who had started questioning the events of 9/11 died in a “plane crash.”

Putin, who is currently grandstanding as an opponent of the “New World Order” only has to leak a Soviet era dossier to let the American people know about the traitors in their administration who participated with the Soviets in this event. But who knows, maybe a young Putin was involved.


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